In massa alternare introito calorico o no?

[Fabioi75]

Cmq sono sempre stato molto sensibile ai carbo da sempre, se esagero metto peso facilmente.

Perdonami, ma penso che dipenda proprio da una errata alimentazione nel tempo.
Mi risulta quasi impossibile credere che se punti a una alimentazione che tenda a invertire la tendenza tu non arrivi a ottenere l'effetto contrario.

Cioè mi stai dicendo che a parità di calorie se diminuiscono i carbo metto più massa grassa? È il contrario di quello che ho sperimentato in passato. Ma se io, come dici tu, metto i carbo all'80%, di pro e fat mi resta molto poco...

Questo perchè le cellule assorbono acqua e quando la cellula viene idratata cresce.

Hai qualche sito o qualche studio da linkare? Vorrei leggere i motivi di un apporto così alto di carbo.

[TommyB1992]

Hai qualche sito o qualche studio da linkare? Vorrei leggere i motivi di un apporto così alto di carbo.

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/article ... 018-0242-y

Carbohydrate
Beyond optimal energy intake, consuming adequate amounts of carbohydrate, protein, and fat is important for athletes to optimize their training and performance. In particular and as it relates to exercise performance, the need for optimal carbohydrates before, during and after intense and high-volume bouts of training and competition is evident [41]. Excellent reviews [42, 43] and original investigations [44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49] continue to highlight the known dependence on carbohydrates that exists for athletes competing to win various endurance and team sport activities. A complete discussion of the needs of carbohydrates and strategies to deliver optimal carbohydrate and replenish lost muscle and liver glycogen extend beyond the scope of this paper, but the reader is referred to several informative reviews on the topic [23, 41, 50, 51, 52, 53].

As such, individuals engaged in a general fitness program and are not necessarily training to meet any type of performance goal can typically meet daily carbohydrate needs by consuming a normal diet (i.e., 45–55% CHO [3–5 g/kg/day], 15–20% PRO [0.8–1.2 g/kg/day], and 25–35% fat [0.5–1.5 g/kg/day]). However, athletes involved in moderate and high-volume training need greater amounts of carbohydrate and protein (discussed later) in their diet to meet macronutrient needs [50]. In terms of carbohydrate needs, athletes involved in moderate amounts of intense training (e.g., 2–3 h per day of intense exercise performed 5–6 times per week) typically need to consume a diet consisting of 5–8 g/kg/day or 250–1200 g/day for 50–150 kg athletes of carbohydrate to maintain liver and muscle glycogen stores [23, 24, 50]. Research has also shown that athletes involved in high volume intense training (e.g., 3–6 h per day of intense training in 1–2 daily workouts for 5–6 days per week) may need to consume 8–10 g/day of carbohydrate (i.e., 400–1500 g/day for 50–150 kg athletes) in order to maintain muscle glycogen levels [50]. Preferably, the majority of dietary carbohydrate should come from whole grains, vegetables, fruits, etc. while foods that empty quickly from the stomach such as refined sugars, starches and engineered sports nutrition products should be reserved for situations in which glycogen resynthesis needs to occur at accelerated rates [53]. In these situations, the absolute delivery of carbohydrate (> 8 g of carbohydrate/kg/day or at least 1.2 g of carbohydrate/kg/hour for the first four hours into recovery) takes precedence over other strategies such as those that may relate to timing or concomitant ingestion of other macronutrients (e.g., protein) or non-nutrients (e.g., caffeine) or carbohydrate type (i.e., glycemic index) [50].

When considering the carbohydrate needs throughout an exercise session, several key factors should be considered. Previous research has indicated athletes undergoing prolonged bouts (2–3 h) of exercise training can oxidize carbohydrates at a rate of 1–1.1 g per minute or about 60 g per hour [41]. Several reviews advocate the ingestion of 0.7 g of carbohydrate/kg/hr. during exercise in a 6–8% solution (i.e., 6–8 g per 100 ml of fluid) [41, 42, 50, 54]. It is now well established that different types of carbohydrates can be oxidized at different rates in skeletal muscle due to the involvement of different transporter proteins that result in carbohydrate uptake [55, 56, 57, 58, 59]. Interestingly, combinations of glucose and sucrose or maltodextrin and fructose have been reported to promote greater exogenous rates of carbohydrate oxidation when compared to situations when single sources of carbohydrate are ingested [55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63]. These studies generally indicate a ratio of 1–1.2 for maltodextrin to 0.8–1.0 fructose seems to support the greatest rates of carbohydrate oxidation during exercise. Additional research on high molecular weight amylopectin indicates that there may be a benefit to the lower osmolality of the starch, allowing for greater consumption (100 g/hour) and possibly greater oxidation rates and performance improvement [64, 65, 66, 67]. In addition to oxidation rates and carbohydrate types, the fasting status and duration of the exercise bout also function as key variables for athletes and coaches to consider. When considering duration, associated reviews have documented that bouts of moderate to intense exercise need to reach exercise durations that extend well into 90th minute of exercise before carbohydrate is shown to consistently yield an ergogenic outcome [41, 68, 69]. Of interest, however, not all studies indicate that shorter (60–75 min) bouts of higher intensity work may benefit from carbohydrate delivery. Currently the mechanisms surrounding these findings are, respectively, thought to be replacement of depleted carbohydrate stores during longer duration of moderate intensity while benefits seen during shorter, more intense exercise bouts are thought to operate in a central fashion. Moreover, these reviews have also pointed to the impact of fasting status on documentation of ergogenic outcomes [41, 68, 69]. In this respect, when studies require study participants to commence exercise in a fasted state, ergogenic outcomes are more consistently reported, yet other authors have questioned the ecological validity of this approach for competing athletes [43].

As it stands, the need for optimal carbohydrates in the diet for those athletes seeking maximal physical performance is unquestioned. Daily consumption of appropriate amounts of carbohydrate is the first and most important step for any competing athlete. As durations extend into 2 h, the need to deliver carbohydrate goes up, particularly when commencing exercise in a state of fasting or incomplete recovery. Once exercise ceases, several dietary strategies can be considered to maximally replace lost muscle and liver glycogen, particularly if a limited window of recovery exists. In these situations, the first priority should lie with achieving aggressive intakes of carbohydrate while strategies such as ingesting protein with lower carbohydrate amounts, carbohydrate and caffeine co-ingestion or certain forms of carbohydrate may also help to facilitate rapid assimilation of lost glycogen.

Per approfondire, consiglio tutto l'articolo.

[Fabioi75]

Ho letto ma si riferisce ad atleti che si allenano 3-6 ore al giorno, non leggo di ipertrofia e di comuni mortali che si allenano con i pesi 1 Oretta 3 volte a settimana.

[TommyB1992]

Ho letto ma si riferisce ad atleti che si allenano 3-6 ore al giorno, non leggo di ipertrofia e di comuni mortali che si allenano con i pesi 1 Oretta 3 volte a settimana.

Apparte che cita dalle 2-3h per citare i 5-8gr (e 2-3h mi ci alleno io in definizione figuriamoci in ipertrofia, la scheda me l'ha fatta @Luca Ruggiero perciò puoi recuperarla nella sezione apposita).

Poi ripeto, tu puoi anche mettere massa in chetogenica per quel mi riguarda e allenarti 3h a settimana in massa.

Se tu ti alleni 3h a settimana in ipertrofia, continua pure a farlo, non sarò di certo io a impedirtelo (anche perchè non ne avrei il minimo interesse), ma io consiglio ciò che è corretto da fare e ciò che viene evidenziato nella serie di pubblicazioni scientifiche e libri che ho letto.

How Much Should I Train? del Dr. Mike Israetel (i riferimenti agli articoli scientifici li trovi direttamente nel libro).

E spiega bene quanto allenarsi in ipertrofia (che ti assicuro che non sono le 3h per 3 volte a settimana, spoiler: 7/7 per avanzati, 6/7 per intermedi, 5/7 per neofiti).

[Fabioi75]

No vabbe non mi vado a comprare il libro. Volevo solo leggere studi che affermavano l'utilità di quel fiume di carboidrati fra l'altro a discapito di proteine.

[TommyB1992]

No vabbe non mi vado a comprare il libro. Volevo solo leggere studi che affermavano l'utilità di quel fiume di carboidrati fra l'altro a discapito di proteine.

Per carità fai bene a essere a curioso... anzi...